Re: [-empyre-] the use in everyone coming?

[Eryk Salvaggio <eryk@maine.rr.com>]

Charlotte,

I think this is an important thing, is that the issues of feminism are really
just issues of cultural programming. And this programming gets in between
everyone and self actualization; not just women. The role of women as "gazed
at" vs the role of men as the eye is definitely accurate, but men can be
thrown into the position of the eye, as well. As a "man" I'm privy to a lot
of what goes on when men are alone and a lot of it is still molded by what
they are supposed to be by holding that position. When men are alone with
men they can be very different than when they are alone with women. I mean,
I've been alone with guys who would say the most absurd things, things like
"Cheese Curls, A Big Screen and Porno, that's all a guy needs!" And of course
on a date the guy is completely respectful and courteous either a) because
he's getting laid or trying to or b) because he can actually not "act" like
a "male."  While a lot of this comes off as men being sleazy or manipulative
it actually seems more like a kind of schizophrenia. 

How this affects the internet is interesting. What I've kind of noticed is
that the net doesn't liberate many people- instead, it makes people play
their projected roles even more precisely. People in a chat room tend to
lean more towards the "cheese curls and porno" side of themselves instead
of giving themselves a chance to be who they more than likely actually are.
Why this is, I don't know, although it seems very possible that this is a
side effect of the net being conducive to and populated by the male psyche.
Internet interfaces are a predominantly male domination of a feminine structure
anyway. 

But this just brings me back to the point that at the heart of feminism,
sexuality and multiculturalism is the elimination of roles, period, and to
see people "as they are" which is not always perfect anyway. Can you live
in your head completely deprogrammed from all of the stereotypes and roles
you've been nominated to play by the roll of some genetic dice? And, ultimately-
would this make you "good?" 

Men have traditionally been left out of "liberation" ideas because it's been
misconstrued as a binary of power and powerless, as defined by the one who
is observed vs the one who is looked at- women are gazed at, black men are
followed around in stores and eyed by cops, there's a perception of this
giant eye being forced on everyone [which also plays a nice fat role in the
white male's core myth of christianity; which, despite any real reason, has
been turned into a story about a giant hovering eyeball in the sky]- and
he who controls the eye controls the norm. So white men have held on to it
for a while, but ultimately, if you can manipulate women's [culturally indoctrinated]
insecurities that they need to spend millions of dollars to be "real women"
who "turn heads" and appease the giant hovering eyeball of the white male
gaze, why not convince men that they, too, need to spend millions of dollars
to be "real men" who appease the giant hovering eyeball of women? I mean
there is a rise in male vanity products isn't there? There is no prestige
anymore, white men aren't safe from the hovering eyeball either. The cultural
power has shifted to media producers- people who want to sell products. So
ultimately the hovering eye is made up of dollar signs. 

But ultimately this leads to the oppression of everybody. Which is
why I'll say again that feminism is not going to work on its own. The root
of oppressive cultural force has to be eradicated; and this is a very personal
thing. The internet can be a huge asset in this regard for disseminating
information that can help in self liberation [since the media won't have
any of that shit going on between their ads for perfumes and stylish boxer
shorts.] 


-e.









Charlotte Frost wrote:
> Finally, and I hope this isn't taken the wrong way by fellow feminists, but
> it is a thought I heard the other day and have been mulling
> over...patriarchal society has shaped men as much as it has shaped women,
> and it has oppressed men too. Some of the roles we expect men to fulfil, or
> chastise them for fulfilling, are precisely the roles they often don't want
> to fulfil. It is often the focus on the shaping of women by society that
> upsets and angers men, so perhaps we should be looking for ways, in line
> with what I have suggested about feminism being about oppression in general,
> to renegotiate for men too. It might make for a better understanding of
> feminism EVERYWHERE, and stop the antagonism and or limiting comments often
> made?!
>
> But of course I have argued myself in a circle by pointing out the
> circularity of this argument!
>
>
> C
>
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